Wednesday, July 24, 2019

What's the Difference?




Back in June, Amy, over at her blog Eric51Amy49, wrote a serious post on the subject of Submission and Obedience.  If you would like to read it, you can find it HERE.  It was a very thought-provoking topic, and Amy's response made me think about where I am currently with both submission and obedience.  I don't feel confident with telling you that I am where I want to be.  So maybe it's time for me to write about it too.  To take on a little self-examination.  Perhaps a bit overdue.

                   Here is the statement that started me thinking.



What does it mean to submit?  
Submission is a matter of attitude, a matter of spirit.  
What does it mean to obey?  
Obedience is a matter of conscience, a matter of outward behavior.  
Submission is inward, whereas obedience is outward.
 
 



Well, here are some of my understandings.  Submission is something that you choose to give.  With a ttwd or DD relationship, it is the crux of the whole "consensual" question between the couple in a long-term relationship.  A wife agrees that her husband will be the leader and she will follow.  He has the option of using a spanking or other deterrent when he feels she has acted in some way that has a negative impact on the couple's well being.

         
There is no force exerted by either party.  The woman freely submits, both to his leadership and any spanking, if it happens.  There is a high level of trust between the husband and wife.  An important thing to understand is that both people are committed to each other and to making each other happy and fulfilled.


  

I become "His" both by the way I submit and the way I obey.  I think I am at my most submissive when I remain silent.  And for me, it takes constant monitoring to stay in this mindset.  As soon as my mind moves on to going out to dinner or cleaning out drawers or my volunteering responsibilities, I can lose that good place in my head and in my heart that makes submission feel so natural.  That's why I confessed that I am not where I want to be.  I yearn for that to be as easy as smiling or nodding my head.  Oh, I wish.




In fact, submission can be both easy and difficult.  If I am concentrating, I can easily listen when Sam speaks and give him my full attention.  Active listening.  I am engaged, but I know in my head that my opinion isn't needed for this interaction.  In fact any words coming out of my mouth would be extraneous in that moment.  What is needed is my silence.  That is my gift to him.  I don't need to have a sign on my forehead that says, "I am submissive."  He will know and appreciate it without it being consciously acknowledged.




When I fail, it is as obvious and ugly as a wart on my nose.  Sam makes a statement and, instead of submission, I deliver, "No, you are forgetting.  That happened after we got off the plane."  There is...no listening to the heart of the matter.  There is only...just let me correct you, mister.  Submission crawls away to hide its head.  In fact I believe that almost always, when I do this, my response is absolutely without meaning.  It does not serve any purpose other than to make me feel smarter than Sam in a useless and harmful way.




I still try to reinforce the submissive behavior in myself by a specific physical movement that is meaningful only to me.  If I did something that was understood by Sam, it would defeat the purpose.  Perhaps it is a silly thing, but it helps me remain in a submissive state of mind more often. 


   

Obedience is sometimes easier because I am given a prompt that brings me back from wherever my mind is wandering (perhaps about shoes.)  It also requires some type of response from me.  Either in a verbal agreement to take this direction or even just a nod or a kiss.  He knows I heard him and plan to carry out something as he wishes. 

"Ella, don't forget to use the Lowes charge card when you go to buy your flowers," Sam says.




I hear it as a direction or even a command.  It is much easier to remember to simply say, "Thanks, I will," or even "Yessir."  It is NOT pure obedience when I come back with the word, "Why?"  Then I am questioning his leadership and forcing him to defend himself.  Even when this is done with no rancor, I am still doubting his authority to ask me to obey.





In the best of times, there is both submission and obedience in our ttwd marriage.  At the worst of times there is neither, although that happens much less often than it used to.
  

As I was thinking through my feelings on the subjects in this post, something else became apparent to me.  We all are well aware of the fact that there are very few posts going up in blogland these days.  Me included.  People have moved on to other interests or just giving in to the feeling that they have said all they have to say.  I totally understand because I can identify with both those reasons.




The thing is that I think the very act of writing a post like this one or reading someone else's post about a facet of ttwd keeps me sharp.  Many times a phone conversation or a visit with one or many blogger friends does the same thing.  By "sharp" I mean it keeps me in the zone I want to be in.  I am renewed.  I am conscious of living this lifestyle.  It makes me watch and listen to Sam with patience and love.  Without the reading, the writing, or the discussion, I lose my edge, and ttwd becomes just a little bit mundane.  

                      And that is something I never want to happen. 


   

31 comments:

  1. Hi Ella,

    This is a great post! A very thought provoking question and I very much enjoyed reading your perspective. I agree, submission comes from within, from the heart whereas obedience is outward behaviours.

    Hugs
    Roz

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    1. Thank you, Roz, for always being there for so many of us. Wish I could give you a real hug instead of a virtual one across so many miles. I think we all could write something on what those two words mean to us, and every post would be different.

      Sending Hugs Down Under,
      Ella

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  2. Hi Ella, I loved reading this post about submission and obedience. At times I've felt why should I blog no one wants my point of view. I can see though by what you've said we all contribute and help each other.
    Thank you for reminding me.
    Hugs Lindy xx

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    1. Lindy, I can't tell how happy it made me to see your name pop up on my comments! I am glad you liked the post and that you understood what I mean by my feeling supported by my friends out there. It's like when they say, "It takes a village to raise a child." Except for us, it is more like it takes a community of bloggers to support a strong and loving ttwd wife.

      Really Have Missed You!
      Ella

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  3. I think this is beautiful and well thought out. I run into a problem because my sweetie wants neither submission nor obedience. It's kind of like having a gift to give, but no one wants it.

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    1. That is high praise from one of my favorite writers, PK. Sam said the very same thing at first. It was so foreign to him. I was crushed and did some heavy crying and further reading. There was a woman who wrote that she just began acting and speaking like a ttwd wife, even though he wanted no part of it. She was a determined gal.
      I know your Nick tries his best, as I have read some very happy posts from you this last spring. He loves you so much. You give all of us your books, and they are gifts I treasure. Perhaps for now, that is your purpose, but never say never.

      Love and Hugs,
      Ella

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  4. Hi Ella! ... great post ... these are thoughts I have on a regular basis as well so can well relate! The term I use to describe when I am at my best is 'my submissive heart' ... and I need reminders when I lose it which seems to be more often than not these days. I like your idea of a personal signal to remind yourself when you need to dial it back ... altho' I prefer my reminders to come from Frank :>)) ... hugs! ... nj

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    1. Hi back at you, NJ! I love that phrase, "my submissive heart." It is a silly little thing I remembered from my childhood, and when I do it, it is a mini congratulations for keeping my mouth shut. Sam was up very early this morning for just such a reminder, my friend.

      Hugs From Ella :)

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  5. Ella! Thank you for bringing us back to this. Wilma originally proposed the topic and I jumped on a quick write up but still need to go back and respond to comments. Your words resonate in my head and I need to get sharp again. Eric is traveling until Wednesday. Should give me time to brush up before he returns.
    Amy

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    1. I remember Wilma's comment on your post that day, and I will look forward to see how other people perceive this topic. It took several weeks for it to percolate in my head, and then I was ready to write, Amy. Thanks for the push. Perhaps I need to remember the staying sharp part more regularly.

      Hugs of Appreciation,
      Ella

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  6. Ella,
    A great post! When we began ttwd, I promised to submit to my husband's wishes and desires and correction. Leaning in is what we nicknamed it. The word obey is never used here as that word is for dogs and sometimes children, not me. It works well. I love your Lowes example. I shared it with Jack. He pointed out that I have almost mastered the ability to just say okay to most of his decisions. It works for us.
    Meredith

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    1. Mere, I have always loved your "leaning in" and it has worked very well for you and your Jack. It still makes me smile when you use it in your posts. The word or words themselves make no difference at all. We hardly ever say "obey" but that is the essence of what I have promised.

      The Lowes example was a good one as it happened in May when I got set to plant annuals in our big pots and patio containers. I couldn't figure out why he would say to charge it until I went to check out. The checker took my card and chattered about our 10% business discount as she deducted a hefty chunk of the total. Sam remembered and knew I wouldn't. Smart fella.

      Hugs From Ella

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    2. Ella,
      We hold dear the 10% Lowes discount given to each and every veteran.
      M

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  7. Interesting personal take on submission and obedience Ella. I have yet to post my post on this- truth is, my thoughts keep changing every so slightly as to how I want to word it. I do agree, that submission is something that is more felt for me, and obedience is the action B can see - though he sees the difference in my demeanour with my submission in full swing.

    I respectfully disagree with Meredith's view on the word obey. I find when expressed in a manor which is compared to dogs it belittles the effort it takes to obey, and also the desire that submissives have to obey. We all obey something, whether it is the law, our boss's instructions, our Church's expectations. We do so with thought- or ideally. I realize we all have words we don't care for, heck I used to not be fond of the word submissive, but I do believe we have a responsibility to be sensitive to others with our wording. I have a dear friend who was very upset that people compared the word obedience to dog training, as she has said countless times that she is obedient to her husband- which is probably why it struck a cord with me again.

    I understand how when you feel off, that blogland can help keep you where you need to be, especially if you ( in general terms) are not experiencing your dynamic in a way you need to. Remember there are lots and lots of blogs out there. Nora Jean has some great ones on her blog roll to read- and all are still very active!

    I hope you discover where you need to be more freely again soon.

    willie

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    1. Thanks for your comment, Wilma. I remember your comment when Amy posted, and I will be so interested to hear your take on this topic. It took me a long time and many changes, and I still don't know if it really says all I wanted it to.

      I agree that the word choice is not the important thing here, and it is just easier to use "obey" when discussing this in the context of a ttwd or dd relationship. Maybe "obey with love" is a better description. I do obey the rules of the road (most of the time), but I don't love traffic safety. I do love Sam very much!

      We adopted this lifestyle into our marriage a long time before I knew any of you. Since I first discovered blogland, it has enriched my experience a hundredfold. While I was still working 40 plus hours a week, I put a cap on how many blogs I would read and comment on. Now I believe you are right and that I need to read a wider circle. That will be the path to "staying sharp."

      Thanks So Much, Wilma!
      Ella

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  8. Ella, I am so happy to that you blogged about this topic. I have been trying to wrap my mind on writing about this and am having a lot of difficulty. You did it beautifully. I love your distinctions and your examples. You have given me the encouragement to blog again. I need blogland. I need the subtle and sometimes obvious reminders and support that I receive here. Thank you for such a heartfelt post.

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    1. Hello Blondie, another name I have missed seeing. I do indeed need blogland, and it doesn't surprise me that you feel that way too.

      It reminds me of my teaching career. I think I got to be an excellent teacher because I listened and watched so many other good teachers. There was a community of ideas and strategies we shared, and when things didn't go the way I planned, there was someone who understood.

      We are a community of women with something very important in common. What a waste if we do not share with other bloggers and readers too.

      I am glad it touched you, Blondie. Let the ideas perk and then give us your take on things. I would love to read it.

      Hugs From Ella

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  9. Ella,
    I am working with a migraine hangover here at my house so although I read your post much earlier today, I haven't been able to come up with a nice thoughtful post yet. So I just woke up from a much needed nap and I might make no sense whatsoever.

    It's interesting to read your personal response to the question that some of the gals have been blogging about. I'm sorry you struggle a little bit more when we in blog land all go on vacation, whether mentally or physically, all at the same time! For me, I think it has actually helped a little bit for me NOT to be thinking about ttwd and blogging, but rather to have some time where Storm and I just live it. This has been a time for growth for both of us and I will write an update sometime soon, hope.

    I know there are many blogs outside of this little corner of the net, but I am uncomfortable with many of the ones I have run across. No judgment, just not things that I want to read about for the most part. I do get the submission thing and I feel I write about that sometimes. Funny thing way back on our wedding day, obviously before spanking and any ttwd, I wasn't comfortable to say the traditional church wedding vows because I knew I wasn't going to obey my husband let alone promise that I would in front of a crowd of 300 witnesses. But, look at me/us now? HA! Best wishes as you continue to get into touch with all that you want to again with yours and Sam's version of ttwd. Hugs, Windy

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    1. Hope you are feeling better, Windy. Thanks so much for the comment. Even comments can inspire me! I know what you mean about searching for blogs that really speak to you. There are many that don't appeal, but ttwd evolves and changes. So many have said goodbye. It just seems like the right time to strike out and try a new direction.

      Hugs From Ella

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  10. Ella, this is a thoughtful and eloquent post. I’m pretty bad at submission and can’t always ‘obey’ without knowing the reason. The word ‘obey’ did not feature in my marriage vows. Harry doesn’t expect a smooth ride all the time, I can’t entirely change my spots and he wouldn’t want me to. There are still areas I need to work on, though you might expect that after six years I’d have cracked it!
    Rosie xx

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    1. Thank you, Rosie. I seriously don't even remember our vows. I think the word "obey" generated many different reactions in this post. Maybe I should have paired it with the word "trust." We have been at it for over five years now and I know that those two words go hand in hand.

      Hugs Across the Pond,
      Ella

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  11. A great post my friend!! I have thought a lot about obey and submit...think I have a post on it from back when....for me, the difference...and this is greatly simplified....is that obedience is demanded or expected and is a physical response....something you do....submission...is given...from the heart...hugs abby

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    1. Beautiful, Abby. Perhaps you could post your old post again. Or update it. I would love to read more from your point of view.

      Hugs From Ella

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  12. A love the post! Hopefully, I can think on this today as I find I am "chafing at the bit" right now. My Sheriff is standing stronger in his role these past few days and I am having trouble "leaning in" and simply doing as asked. But maybe just contemplating the concept will help me remember why I wanted it in the first place.

    Thanks Ella.

    Boo

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    1. You are so welcome, Boo. Thanks for your comment. Try coming up with a small physical movement or gesture that means you are in the moment and thinking about your role.

      Hugs From Ella

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  13. Hi Ella!
    It is always such a treat when you post! It has been a bit of a starvation diet around blogland!
    I have gotten a lot better at this, but I always notice how meaningless my words are when I correct my husband! As in, "no, honey, that was 1981, not 1982"! My mind always feels it is necessary to correct the record as if accuracy is the ultimate goal! My husband does not appreciate being corrected or questioned at all!
    I am curious what you do to remind yourself, do you pinch yourself or something?
    I find the word "obey" is very powerful, for exactly the same reason that it sticks in your throat! I deliberately use it because it challenges my independent mind. It goes to the heart of what submission is for me!
    I agree that thoughtful, perceptive, deep and transparent posts [like yours always are!] really do illuminate our journey.
    Thank you!
    Love, Ava

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    1. Goodness, Ava! I am so happy that this post spoke to you. I actually did a post once when I started to use a physical reminder or reward for when I am really aware of my submission. I can loosely put my hand on my heart or twirl my hair or touch my wedding ring. It doesn't really matter what it is. And thanks for all the lovely compliments, my friend. They mean so much to me!

      Hugs From Ella

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  14. Hi, Miss Ella,
    I purposely did not read all the comments because my goal would be to speak from the heart. I struggle daily with submission and obedience. I try so hard to get it right, but often fall short. I'm certain we all do, but find I do not necessarily worry about others, but rather about myself and my own successes or failures. You know that its hard to keep sharp always, but it's in the trying that we succeed.

    Submission is internal and obedience outward, but I feel like they both go hand and hand. If my heart is not in the right place it does not matter to my man if I obey. He would rather my heart be in the right place. To him, submission shows in how I act and respond. Thanks for following up on Amy's topic. It's a good one.
    --Baker

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  15. I really liked how you said that it is "in the trying that we succeed." I hope so, Baker, because I do try. It is so nice to have you comment today. Thanks for taking time away from your busy house. Hope you take away a bit of wisdom to help you with all the day to day struggles.

    Hugs From Ella

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  16. So much in this post that gives me 'pause to think'. There are sections I resonate with and others that challenge me to reassess where I am and where I stand in this complicated and diverse world of DD.
    Thank you for these words. Very thought provoking.
    Hugs,
    Kanga Jo xx

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  17. Hi Ella, thank-you for sharing this heart-felt and thought-provoking post. It was very interesting to read and made me think of my own thoughts. My own thoughts are simply that - thoughts - as spanking has not really played a part in my life for quite some time as much as I wish it and when it has it has only been the playful kind as foreplay. I have accepted that, still with the hidden hope that someday it evolves much deeper and maybe someday I will get to explore my own submission. But for now, I share my thankful thursday posts as that is my special offering and way to stay connected with this community I consider part of my family. Much love and hugs!

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